The ending stages of a duel

[Krebz]

Just wondering, how do you guys finish a duel?

>exhausting your opponent
>out matching him in speed
>Others?

[Waxman]

I pretty much get lucky and tap my opponents leg or arm in the midst of blocking and attacking.

I do try, however, to incorporate skill or prior knowledge which sometimes works.  I usually try to match my opponent in their styles.  If they're doing traditional then I will use traditional.  If they're being fast then I'll be fast. If they're trying to role-play then I will most certainly role-play.
I mean, duels only last anywhere from like 8 seconds to possibly 2 minutes.

I'd certainly love to have an epic duel situated 1-2 miles in the air on a catwalk connected to a Death-Ray pointing at the sun while there is a storm going on and a war on the ground and in the air where I ultimately overpower my opponent with the power of friendship or some power of the ancients, unfortunately, that's just not the case.

[Master Lucien Kane]

We're delving into tactics... Essentially you end a duel one of a few ways; Either your blade passes through them, you immobilize them, or one of you surrenders.

Exhausting them is a tactic, outlast, outperform, and outdo them with superior stamina. Now this is a risky tactic unless you know your sparring partner's limits. You might meet the person who either has way more energy than you do or, even worse, you might meet the person who knows they run out of gas quickly so they conserve energy, minimize movement, and seek to end fights quickly... Knowing your weaknesses can help you counter them, by either developing those weaknesses, or developing tactics and techniques that help you counter those weaknesses.

Once again outmatching your opponent with speed requires the risk of your opponent possibly being faster than you. I'm pretty damn fast, but there are people out there who are faster than I am, if that's the tactic I'm relying on completely I'll be destroyed.

Strength is another tactic, one beginners especially like to rely on. When you go for strength you feel powerful, when you feel powerful you feel dangerous and in control. For people who have a lot of experience strength comes in handy because they know when and how to use it. For the beginner strength is as much a danger to themselves as it is to others. I'm fairly strong, but I'm not a very big guy, big guys are way stronger than I am. You don't know how often I hear the laughable myth that braun outdoes brain. If a guy is bigger and stronger and faster than you, you are screwed. This is a falsehood, while strength is an advantage, it is not THE advantage. You don't know how many times I've won duels against bigger guys because when they stepped in for power swings I stopped them with a one handed block, smiled and then quickly riposted for the win. A solid technical foundation, and good tactical knowledge will win the day over brute force any day.

Intercepting incoming attacks, which is catching the incoming strike and placing your blade in the path of their arm or some other mark of contact that will force your opponent to either; break off their attack, or throw themselves into your blade. This is effective, but for someone who has really good blade work you might find yourself on the losing end of the conflict. I like to use intercepts, but when people try to use them on me, I have solid blade work so when they do I'm pretty good at using their attack to my advantage.

These are just a few to start with, note that I'm not saying these strategies are bad. I'm just pointing out some of the misconceptions surrounding them. You've got to prepare for all of these, and work to understand how to use them. Every person you face in a duel is different, there are some people I don't use certain techniques on because they don't work. There are people I can use the same technique on every time because it almost always works, I have to teach them and break them of their bad habits so they can counter that technique.

The point is, none of these strategies are good or bad, they all depend on the person using them, and their ability to adapt these tactics to their own strengths and weaknesses. In essence, and Bruce Lee has been quoted here quite a few times in the last week, be water my friend.

Don't hem yourself into using one thing, remember this, "In the beginners mind, there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are only a few." -Shunryu Suzuki

We should all strive to keep the beginners mind, you have never stopped learning. If you get to a place where you are satisfied and you feel you have mastered the sword, saber, martial art, musical instrument. You are complacent, you have lost your beginner's mind. There is always more to be learned, and to have a beginner's mind means you approach every technique, every lesson as if it were new and untouched. Keep your beginner's mind, and don't be so quick to hem yourself into a particular box.

[Bluesky]

Hi there from Australia

Rhythm, broken rhythm, interception, leading, pacing, and speed. So many great points here. Master Lucien Kane's post is one of the best I have read so far.

Death and battle are not to be taken lightly; making war practice one must practice as though at war. Courage is often not mentioned but if you are pressed against someone superior that does not mean you cannot win or Sheathe the Sword "Take a sacrificial blow to strike down your enemy."

Often it comes down to the spirit of the battle; if you are fighting for others that is different for fighting for yourself.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMXJa_-S3Jw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMXJa_-S3Jw</a>

Victory or defeat for me is a lesson. What have I learnt from this? I like to see honor, respect, and even a few encouraging kind words...

I like it even when you watch two people sparring and they shake hands and show respect regardless of outcomes. If you come away from the battle feeling rewarded for your effort; even fatigued, even not winning the day, this for me is what is remembered.

To finish a opponent is not the Jedi way. But if you must strike them down do it to protect and guard peace and justice.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ4XMzBjc7o" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ4XMzBjc7o</a>

Kind Regards
Bluesky

[DarkJediKnight]

its impossible to say really although my preferred method is to take a step back and remain on the defensive  see what my opponent does what his skills and weaknesses are then when the moment of opportunity arrises or my opponent starts to tire strike back with a barrage of speed and power attacks and attempt to disarm my opponent

[Duff Man]

Mine Usually end like this.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AoOa-Fz2kw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AoOa-Fz2kw</a>

[Master VorNach]

Just wondering, how do you guys finish a duel?

>exhausting your opponent
>out matching him in speed
>Others?

With someone yielding or receiving a disabling hit. 

More seriously though, Master Lucien has presented a nice discourse on the question. (for which he gets a point !)

[Bluesky]

Hi there from Australia

Courage is very important...

When you face within yourself the desire to finish them you are not at peace. Courage is facing your enemy calm and at peace with the moral right on your side. Courage is acting in the presence of fear and doubt. Finishing your opponent often comes to those willing to stand against over whelming odds and do what it takes to defeat them. Victory often comes to the one that knows themselves, the terrain and their enemy.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1IjaeWg0n4" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1IjaeWg0n4</a>

I thought this video shows courage in the face of evil. (And cool music! )

Kind Regards
Bluesky

[Master Lucien Kane]

Tenacity is actually a precept of tactics. A good tactical strategy has audacity. There is a balance though, a thin line if you will between bravery and foolishness. The difference between cockiness and confidence.

Also thanks Master VorNach! I do a lot of contemplation on tactics and techniques.

[Oramac]

Tenacity is actually a precept of tactics. A good tactical strategy has audacity. There is a balance though, a thin line if you will between bravery and foolishness. The difference between cockiness and confidence.

Also thanks Master VorNach! I do a lot of contemplation on tactics and techniques.

I feel like this applies:

http://www.amazon.com/Art-War-Sun-Tzu/dp/0195014766

I need to find my copy.  It's floating around somewhere.

[Bluesky]

Hi there from Australia

Along with Tenacity; Watchfulness is very important. Great post Master Lucien and good point Oramac. Often an opponent will impale themselves or defeat themselves. Are they a attacker, runner (Someone who runs backwards), counter, or fox (Someone that likes deception) ? Do they move well? Do they favor one side over the other? Do they use combinations? Do they create Tension? (Threats that attack your body) Often times the battle goes to the one that watches.

Tenacity is such an important thing to have; a desire to win, a desire to persist.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EuOrY0FWmU" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EuOrY0FWmU</a>

An important part of Tenacity is Competence and Focus. Competence is the source of confidence and Focus is the source of Accuracy. Many times over the years I would wait for that moment when their eyes and mind lost their intensity and focus and in that moment I knew I have them. Intense sparing is very, very quick but once your in it time can seem to slow. (Maybe because of adrenaline? Does anyone know why time seems to slow?)

Generally I will not allow them to build any chain of attacks, I want them to know my broken rhythm and attacks will interrupt anything they do. I want them in a siege mindset.

I found this gem of a video that really shows the speed and intensity of battle. Finishing often requires a full commitment of all your body and in that you can be defeated. Don't worry about the language difference the video speaks louder then words.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4SHWXQBVL4" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4SHWXQBVL4</a>

Interesting wasn't it? Anyway thank you Master Lucian your thoughts about this are very interesting and Oramac the Art of war is one of my most treasured books on war.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

[Master VorNach]

....but once your in it time can seem to slow. (Maybe because of adrenaline? Does anyone know why time seems to slow?)

Apparently it does not. The perception of slowed time appears to be a product of recall, not an actual in the moment experience.
This is the best article I could find with quick short search of the literature.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0001295

I found this gem of a video that really shows the speed and intensity of battle. Finishing often requires a full commitment of all your body and in that you can be defeated. Don't worry about the language difference the video speaks louder then words.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

Nice video.
Finishing commitment does occur, especially in Kendo where there are requirements of movement in order for a strike to count (could someone who studies comment on this?).

Just for the sake of discussion there are times where you don't need a lot of commitment for a finishing move. It's worth remembering not to over commit as well, easy to do until you are used to being committed without over extending.
The fencing stop-thrust is a classic example. For a more historic perspective, are you familiar with the longsword attack scheitelhau, the scalp cut?
http://www.hammaborg.de/bilder/rekonstruktion/langes_schwert/scheitelhau/03_a.jpg

And since the bulk of our discussion here is about the lightsaber consider that it does not need a significant amount of impact on a target to do significant damage. Though neither do most swords against an unarmored target.

[Jammo]

Based on concepts of how a lightsaber works, I like a hilt intercept for the finish. Clean in technical execution, merciful in that no harm is done to the opponent. Very Jedi. It requires a very controlled and measured approach to how you duel, too, making you master the self first. Once you master the self, you don't really even care about winning or losing, really.

[Master Lucien Kane]

Adrenaline helps us deal with threats, so there's a few things that happen. Debateably, Your reflexes are heightened, and your cognitive skills speed up. This makes things seem to happen in slow motion. Your body increases muscle respiration, increasing strength. Your body also releases dopamine and endorphins that can help mitigate pain. I have an amateur understanding mind you, I'm sure Master Nonymous could expand on this. Anyways learning to react in a desirable manner when faced with an adrenaline rush goes back to my first post about muscle memory and training your body to react the way you want to react.

[Bluesky]

Hi there from Australia

Very interesting points here, nice link Master VorNach. Adrenaline can make us jittery and tense and has a down side. The times things seem to slow always were when I was being tested by my partner.

Nice example with the scalp cut

Many finishing moves are cuts to critical targets requiring little actual follow through. I was taught to separate commitment from follow through but your point is well made.

Often the finishing move requires their assistance. Take for instance the example given of the scalp cut; the victor shortened his stance to allow the exhaustion and misfire of his opponent. http://www.hammaborg.de/bilder/rekonstruktion/langes_schwert/scheitelhau/03_a.jpg

The lightsaber and most sharpened blade cut us without much hindrance.

As for cutting I am a big believer in training against resistance with full commitment. This video really reflects my personal experience...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae7XwIE6cWw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae7XwIE6cWw</a>

Intensity and commitment I think should be in all attacks and defenses. Milk toast movements are over run and deceived. Still in the end the sword is a life long passion

For your pure enjoyment I love this video, every time I come back from a hard day it just cheers me up!!!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I_aXeSAw-I" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I_aXeSAw-I</a>

What was Favorite blooper? I have so many! Often finishing them only requires you to wait!

Kind Regards
Bluesky