Click here for lightsabers
  • Home
  • Help
  • Login
  • Register
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
Author Topic: Ataru - Pro's and Con's  (Read 10312 times)
Master VorNach
Resident Master
Knight Commander
*****

Force Alignment: 176
Posts: 777

Mendicus esset tamen suus candeo.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2013, 07:30:01 AM »

Thank you Master VorNach Grin
I was going to ask permission to post those.

TPLA videos are produced under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Please feel free to re-post and share.


I still think much that is out there is choreography Ataru not martial Ataru....[] Much that is shown for Ataru may even look combat effective but is really a performance based set made to appear like combat.

That may be true for some sources out here. Our videos show our interpretation, which is very much as a martial application. We are offering martial arts applications, but that's our interpretation. Anyone is free to develop their own whether for application or choreography or use someones practical application to develop choreographed material.


What do you think about the my take on Ataru so far?
Kind Regards
Bluesky

I have not had time to go through most of what you have written here, beyond what I have replied to.
Logged

Cower not within yourself; whatever he says unto you, do not react to it; fight earnestly for yourself thusly;

https://sites.google.com/site/terraprimelightsaberacademy/
http://annarborsword.com/


Bluesky
Knight Officer
*

Force Alignment: -1
Posts: 109



« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2013, 08:05:27 AM »

Thank you Master VorNach Grin

As much as possible I am trying base my understanding upon attack and world wide variety when it comes to attack. If you find anything you like please share with with me or others; that is why I am posting.

My Ataru is like a tool kit; all the tools neat and in their place. Your videos are an excellent source that definitely inspired my research and development.

In fact TPLA videos really are the bench mark when considering martial Ataru and that is what I am interested in as well. The choreography Ataru is not a bad thing; in fact I think it looks amazing. I just prefer the martial aspects over performance like yourself.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPZ4cl1x98" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPZ4cl1x98</a>


I have covered so far in summary:

1/ Sar Suk Mar: Angle Thrusting + Stop Hit
2/ Sar Suk Kai: Martial Practice
3/ Sar Suk Par: Fundamental Attacks
4/ Mobility: 3 Levels of Competence - Learner/Proficient/Attained
5/ Meridians: 12 Angles and defenses all teaching spacial control.
6/ Sar Suk Hara: Centralization
7/ The Art of Attack 1: Review of Ataru Elements

Each tool in my Ataru tool kit is designed to fit nicely with any other Ataru system. They are simple and effective and helpful whenever you need them.

I hope everyone uses whatever catches their eye and shares what they found useful Grin

Kind Regards
Bluesky
PS - Thank you Master VorNach for your excellent work on Ataru. Your work on Ataru is the standard.
Logged

And they live untouched by sorrow in the islands of the blessed along the shore of deep-swirling Ocean, happy heroes for whom the grain-giving earth bears honey-sweet fruit flourishing thrice a year, far from the deathless gods, and Cronos rules over them

— Hesiod,Works and Days (170)

Bluesky
Knight Officer
*

Force Alignment: -1
Posts: 109



« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2013, 02:11:39 AM »

Ataru - Sar Suk Par 2

Sometimes called the "Second Attack" because it would be the second Ataru lesson in Attack. Please work through Sar Suk Par 1 for a explanation of the Pars.

Attacking the Guards and space; the Pars have seconds to accomplish their task. They attack the quadrants and center line with power like a bird of prey perching in the tree launches into flight. In any exchange of strokes few people are prepared to defend after attacking; their reflexes significantly slow against counter attacks. Bull mentality is similar to siege mentality. Both significantly narrows the focus. Good Hara means you are always returning to the center or closing a quadrant (High Left/High Right/Mid-Left/Mid-Right)

Tiers of Attack/Exchange

Tier 1 - Attack/Defense
Tier 2 - Attack/Defense/Attack
Tier 3 - Attack/Defense/Attack/Defense
Tier 4 - Attack/Defense/Attack/Defense/Attack
Tier 5 - Attack/Defense/Attack/Defense/Attack/Defense

Each Par follows this basic tempo while looking for the initiative to attack twice in a row. Tier 1 s the most common and Tier 5 is the least because the deeper the order of strokes the deeper the complexity and resulting errors. Forms are excellent for discipline and skill but can create the illusion of higher order mastery. In chess; calculation and anticipation of a number of moves deep requires plans and themes to organize the troops together. In Ataru; an attack centric form; the main emphasis is Tier 2 and Tier 3 orders of complexity. There is a number of reasons why for this:

1/ Simplicity and efficiency.
2/ Error reduction.
3/ Control of the Hara.
4/ Accuracy and speed.
5/ Attacking their choices by closing quadrants.
6/ Probable effectiveness as opposed to slavery to form.
7/ Highest Percentage of victory.
8/ Training Gains: Many people train for year with very little success or gain often becoming frustrated. Train for success; achieve success. Train for perfection; achieve frustration. (Victory is often not pretty)
 
If you only have 3 hours a week to become truly proficient; you need to get the most from every session:

1/ Interval/Cardio
2/ Work smart not hard.
3/ Get a teacher.
4/ Cross train different arts.
5/ Have fun; activate your creativity (Play music while you train!)
6/ Teach others or have a training brother or sister - Helping others helps yourself - The teacher learns twice...
7/ Organized preplanned sessions. Go into your practice with a clear list of objectives.
8/ Don't stand around waiting fro your turn; work the basics and keep warm and moving.
9/ The right equipment; make sure you are safe and stretched. Don't develop habits of just jumping straight in. Stretch and protect your body.
10/ Don't train in areas where you could damage or injure the property or people.
11/ Before swinging around; look around quickly for anyone accidentally getting close; also like a chef; ALWAYS say "Back" to let them know you are near.
12 Be humble - When I was young armoring up and whacking away or winning fencing meets I was very full of myself. Trust me, if you are humble and teachable you will learn faster and not be laid on your .....

The world is full of different styles, skill levels and unusually talented people. Be open and good natured as well; show respect, courtesy and honor.

We see here in this video some examples of Luke in Ataru Guard Stance closing the quadrant.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzu9VEHV-98" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzu9VEHV-98</a>


If you have any thoughts or Ataru techniques please share.

Kind Regards
Bluesky
Logged

And they live untouched by sorrow in the islands of the blessed along the shore of deep-swirling Ocean, happy heroes for whom the grain-giving earth bears honey-sweet fruit flourishing thrice a year, far from the deathless gods, and Cronos rules over them

— Hesiod,Works and Days (170)

Bluesky
Knight Officer
*

Force Alignment: -1
Posts: 109



« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2013, 08:38:50 AM »

Ataru - Sar Suk Par 3

Each Par has an innate ability to overpower and dominate and sit over their positions and attacks like a blanket. Although they seem simple they are established and natural attacks. Anyone with any style can use them and become unmatched with them.

Because they are simple and powerful they don’t need Over-thinking – At all times you must have an attitude of unrestrained aggression. You need to not only just dominate but make them feel whatever they throw at you is turned against them. If they set any guard the Pars don’t sit around and wait they pound on the door. Any time they try to extend and occupy the center line (Makashi/Fencer) It closes that door and attacks them, their hands and their ability to react.

Modern Fencing closes the Blindside Mid-quadrant because it means the larger inside quadrant is the natural, power quadrant.
The Ataru Guard Stance closes the Power, Inside Quadrant opening the Lead shoulder/arm/flank. This means some very important technical features must be understood.

1/ Closing the Inside quadrant is like the Fools guard. The weakness of the open chest/body targets encourages their attacks and overextension and exhaustion. All you have to do is advance aggressively and they will fire out at your targets and you can then retreat/Block and counter attack.

2/ The two center files of the chessboard are the most important files. Closing one file you open the other. Prophylaxis or over protection is the concept of over defending because you know that is where they are coming for you so you want to get their ahead of it with extra resources. How does that work in the Ataru Guard Stance? Like a corral (Horse Enclose) you can know the gates around the center are open and close them powerfully and violently, attacking the space; a very important Attack concept of Ataru (As I have conceived and researched it)

3/ Footwork and distance control is very important to use the stance.

Closing the Gates

1/ High
2/ Middle (Hanging/Drop blocking or Mid-guard)
3/ Center
4/ Low

Many of the Pars attack these gates violently; a counterpoint to their attacks. For example; the moment they centralize attack their hands with a released cut. Make them choose guards away from the center; this gives you more time. A good exercise is every time they centralize run in a circle around them like a horse around a corral! Good for fitness and good for becoming center sensitive.

Ataru does not just attack with force assisted spins and flips and acrobats. It is methodical and clinical in its approach to Attack. It leaves no stone unturned when it comes to overwhelming and defeating a skilled opponent. Useful techniques are easily learnt and applied.

Kind Regards
Bluesky
Logged

And they live untouched by sorrow in the islands of the blessed along the shore of deep-swirling Ocean, happy heroes for whom the grain-giving earth bears honey-sweet fruit flourishing thrice a year, far from the deathless gods, and Cronos rules over them

— Hesiod,Works and Days (170)

Bluesky
Knight Officer
*

Force Alignment: -1
Posts: 109



« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2013, 05:03:48 AM »

Ataru - Martial or Choreography?

Even Sword dancing in Japan has its hidden skills and lessons. Ataru knows how to attack, flow, maintain posture and alternate footwork, directions and attacks.

Stage Ataru does not have to guard or defend or even control the distance; it can defy the normal boundaries of the Combat Ataru.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI_nn6ueBKo" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI_nn6ueBKo</a>


What we see in the movies is Dancing; once we look past this to the Martial aspects Ataru is a fertile field for our imaginations and skill developments.

What do you think are the benefits of Stage Ataru?

What do you think are the downsides of Stage Ataru?

Who uses Combat Ataru? What have you discovered?


Kind Regards
Bluesky
Logged

And they live untouched by sorrow in the islands of the blessed along the shore of deep-swirling Ocean, happy heroes for whom the grain-giving earth bears honey-sweet fruit flourishing thrice a year, far from the deathless gods, and Cronos rules over them

— Hesiod,Works and Days (170)

Bluesky
Knight Officer
*

Force Alignment: -1
Posts: 109



« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2013, 04:28:08 AM »

Ataru - Sar Suk Haragei 1

Sometimes called the "Third Attack" because it would be the Third Ataru lesson in Attack. "In martial arts circles, Haragei refers to those arts which supposedly enabled the practitioner to sense threats or anticipate an opponent's movements." - wiki

In my understanding Ataru is very center sensitive and has specific responses to thrusts and center attacks. The Pars are strokes that attack the center, their blade; their hands; and their plans. (Interrupting attacks)

There are 32 Sar Suk Par - The Pars are so effective that even beginners can learn them and cause serious grief to their teachers!

There are 5 Sar Suk Mar - 4 Thrusts that angle into the quadrants and one stop hit thrust.

The first two attacks address cutting and thrusting attacks and the third focuses upon the center. These movements are effective against spear or thrusting attacks and how to move, counter and defeat them. Each Haragei is best practiced with a partner thrusting a staff at your center. Learn to wait and watch the attack and then respond once it crosses a threshold of distance set by your speed and timing. If you learn to wait and watch you will increase your Hara awareness and sensitivity.

When training by yourself, imagine the thrust coming violently at you and then respond, not before. Most peoples center weakens at some point while attacking or defending. Learn how to always come back to the center and gaze at the mountain sight (Solar plexus)

Haragei Special Practices

1/ Practice staring and activating your peripheral vision.
2/ Practice looking left and right or up and down without moving your head.
3/ Practice against a long range weapon like spear/staff.
4/ Practice both sides and practice with left hand in lead as well as right hand.
5/ Practice deep breathing, holding and expelling as you execute.
6/ Understand the space, the meridians, and the Hara.
7/ Teach someone else the Sar Suk Haragei - This will perfect your training when you pass it on.

Each of these attacks seems simple; the Mars are range attacks; the Pars are simple attacks from guards and the Hara's are counters to center attacks. As any teacher will tell you skill is built from the basics; especially if the basics have built in structure and efficiency. Ataru is the Science of Attack; this is its overwhelming compulsion and nature. I believe Ataru is a perfect compliment to Form 3. I believe that Ataru is a wonderful reason to re-examine attacking with the sword. Even though this is Sword Dancing - I believe this to be a good look at attacking. The spinning only came in once the opponent was injured and less mobile...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZJUQ-s-Zc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZJUQ-s-Zc</a>


Only Stage Ataru allows for abandoning the center. Common success is not common. To maximize survival one must be simple and repetitive and clear cutting as opposed to dazzling and wild.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJhFiNpTTHI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJhFiNpTTHI</a>


Haragei or "Stomach Sensitivity" is about defeating them through the center and defeating their attacks through the center. A variation on Haragei is Harasao or "Blade Control" - Haragei deflects/intercepts or absorbs their center attacks while Harasao controls their blade to open their center. "Sao" in Chinese means; "to sweep, to wipe out, broom, to whisk..." So Harasao literally means; "Sweeping the Center!"

In the below video they regularly use all three Ataru Guards: Attack/Guard/ and Running. They also scoop and have some sense of blade control.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OulRd4yvIM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OulRd4yvIM</a>

"Without a Strong Hara and mastery of Haragei; the Harasao will be Weak and without Vitality."

I enjoy attacking and pressing my advantage the moment it presents. What I have learnt over the years is that you don't have to out muscle your opponent. If you have a simple organized disciplined center much just falls into place.

Kind Regards
Bluesky
Logged

And they live untouched by sorrow in the islands of the blessed along the shore of deep-swirling Ocean, happy heroes for whom the grain-giving earth bears honey-sweet fruit flourishing thrice a year, far from the deathless gods, and Cronos rules over them

— Hesiod,Works and Days (170)

Bluesky
Knight Officer
*

Force Alignment: -1
Posts: 109



« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2013, 05:03:59 AM »

Ataru - Sar Suk Hara 2

Where does the concept of the Hara come from?

The Japanese word “hara” is variously translated as: : abdomen, bowel, belly, gut, mind or courage. It is a very important concept in both Chinese and Japanese culture –  even in their religions.  Below I offer a a playful linguistic romp to introduce some of the uses of “hara” in Japanese culture:

In Japanese it can be read as either “hara” or “fuku”.  In Mandarin Chinese it is read as: fů (4th tone–falling).  Japanese is tough that way; each character may have multiple readings — 3 or 4 readings per character is not uncommon.  The Chinese language, on the other hand, is much easier– each character usually has only one reading.

Like many Chinese characters (the source of Japanese writing), “hara” is composed of several parts: On the left side of the character is the radical for “meat”.   And for this character, the right side of the character only gives it the sound “fuku” and has no meaning related to the word.

Since the hara contains the vitality of an individual, a famous way to commit suicide is to “cut the hara” or “Hara-Kiri” (abdomen-cut).   When Americans pronounce “HaraKiri” they ironically slaughter its  pronunciation by saying “HariKari” (Hairy-Carry).

The characters for HaraKiri are 腹切りbut interestingly, if you change the order of the words, you get a more classic samurai word for this type of suicide : 切腹  “Seppuku”.  This is one of the many difficult traits of Japanese — the pronunciation for a character depends on context.

Apparently, not only is the cutting open of one’s hara very painful, but one then dies slowly and painfully.  Thus, to save “face”, a samurai committing harakiri will have a friend stand behind him so that once he has slit his belly open and sealed his fate, the friend would quickly chop off his head to save him a groveling and groaning death.

With the hara being the center of vitality, it is from the hara that anger arises.  A common expression for “getting angry” is “Hara ga tatsu” or (“stomach stands/arises”).   As the stomach stands, heat rises to the head!  A very visceral description of anger.

So those were two unhealthy uses of the hara, let me end with two healthy tips on how to use your hara.

8/10 Hara

Don’t eat until your stuffed!  Or, as they say in Japan, “腹の八分” (Hara no hachibun) which means “[only fill your] hara 80%”. In the picture to the right we have the good boy (symbolized by the “0″) eating small portions  and the bad boy (symbolized by the “x”) who is stuffing himself.
   
Here is another picture showing the 8/10 hara idea in more literal terms.  Before leaving this notion of  eating small portions, I must tell you another common Japanese saying used to steer people away from obesity.  It is said that if you eat right before going to bed you will turn into a [fat] cow.  It turns out that this is partially true.   When your body digests food, it does not produce human growth factor which is primarily made while sleeping.  This in turn slows down your metabolism and thus causes weight gain.  Or so I have read.    

Hara Method of Breathing

腹式呼吸 (Hara Shiki Kokyū) is Japanese for “diaphramatic breathing”.  This breathing method is taught in meditation styles of Zen, Yoga and many others.  Here your lower abdomen expands with each inhale and contracts with each exhale.  The chest does none of the breathing.  Try it by lying down and placing a book on your abdomen.  Then place one hand on the book and the other on your chest.  Now, try to breath by only moving the book and not your chest.  Once you have mastered is lying, it is easy to do while you are sitting.  This sort of breathing is very calming.  If you don’t believe me, try breathing only from your chest and watch your mood change!

Hara Dueling

Controlling the Hara is seen in all great Swordsmen. There are 2 Ways to Control the Hara:

1/ Occupation: Makashi/Angles/structure/Interception/Feinting/Reach

2/ Tension: Form 5/Kinetic/strength/Blade control/Threats/ Attacking the center from chambered positions for more powerful strokes.

2 Examples of Hara Dueling occurs in this video; watch it for the differences between Occupation and Tension:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmIkpRkgaZk" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmIkpRkgaZk</a>


Watch as Luke dominates the center with Harasao: Lifting/Beating/Throwing from High and Mid-parries/ and Sweeping (Wide sweeping arcs that are weak at the end of their motion but can be hard to take advantage of if the attacker has the initiative. Once Vader's Hara was destroyed by losing both blade centralization and balance, he could never recover...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFvAeSJgjc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFvAeSJgjc</a>

I could of found just the fight but I wanted the full context of the fight as well.

Kind Regards
Bluesky
Logged

And they live untouched by sorrow in the islands of the blessed along the shore of deep-swirling Ocean, happy heroes for whom the grain-giving earth bears honey-sweet fruit flourishing thrice a year, far from the deathless gods, and Cronos rules over them

— Hesiod,Works and Days (170)

Tanq
Knight Arbiter
*

Force Alignment: 98
Posts: 256


Knight of Hearts


« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2013, 07:12:34 AM »

Blue, I think it's good practice that if you quote content from articles word for word that the source be cited: http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2010/10/28/hara-a-japanese-lesson/
Logged


Bluesky
Knight Officer
*

Force Alignment: -1
Posts: 109



« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2013, 02:59:04 PM »

Hi there from Australia Grin

Absolutely! - Obviously I draw from as many sources as I can - I will improve that but my point still stands about the Hara.

Thank you. To me it was no different as posting a video example; I am trying to pull all my thinking and research together; it was not to take credit for someone else's work; in fact I try my best in the time I have to share allot of information and ideas. People sent me messages about where I came up with the name so I shared my research showing I did not make it up; I should have been more rigorous and disciplined with my posting but I do my very best. You will notice that the Hara dueling was not mentioned in the article; just history and examples; positive and negative. As far as academic rigor I will try to improve as best I can. I give sources where ever I remember to.

I should have given my source/link! I actually learnt the concept of Hara in martial arts years ago but found this article summed up its history nicely. Like the title said; 'Where does the concept of the Hara come from?'

I will use as many sources as I can; my Hara research found this was the most comprehensive; showing where I got the word Hara "Stomach" / Center.

I do the very best I can but obviously everyone needs to research for themselves. The post before the last one was almost all my material except the wiki quote Shocked

I am not sharing this like a text book but will do my best in the future; you are exactly right about giving sources. I felt in the moment it was apparent but now see you are right. If you word search my entire posts you will find little is quoted from others but I do like to short cut the writing processes if I can with video and text. Thank you for helping me make this better; I will give all my research links in the future! (Ahh more typing!)

If there is any other ways you think I could improve please let me know - I can see I screwed up in my haste Grin

I am sharing this because I do take this martial side of the Jedi seriously; in the second last post I even quoted wiki... I hope you enjoy my thoughts and take it in the spirit it is given. I have been trying to improve my posts steadily; what do you think of the attacks I am developing for Ataru?

Kind Regards
Bluesky
Thanks Tanq Grin
Send me a message about what you think!
Logged

And they live untouched by sorrow in the islands of the blessed along the shore of deep-swirling Ocean, happy heroes for whom the grain-giving earth bears honey-sweet fruit flourishing thrice a year, far from the deathless gods, and Cronos rules over them

— Hesiod,Works and Days (170)

Bluesky
Knight Officer
*

Force Alignment: -1
Posts: 109



« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2013, 10:01:43 AM »

Ataru - Sar Suk Hara 3

I posted this link in another thread but felt it Touches on a very important concept of Hara Breathing and how to breathe as your arms lift and descend.

Enjoy and please let me know what you think?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUytJJDAHk0" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUytJJDAHk0</a>


Kind Regards
Bluesky
(No more rush and post Grin)
Logged

And they live untouched by sorrow in the islands of the blessed along the shore of deep-swirling Ocean, happy heroes for whom the grain-giving earth bears honey-sweet fruit flourishing thrice a year, far from the deathless gods, and Cronos rules over them

— Hesiod,Works and Days (170)

Tanq
Knight Arbiter
*

Force Alignment: 98
Posts: 256


Knight of Hearts


« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2013, 11:24:06 PM »

Blue, I'm not really criticizing you or anything, and if my wording came across as so it's because I'm trying to convey info as well as I can with as little time that I've got to browse through forums, thus sounding blunt...if anything citing sources makes your life easier since all you have to do is summarize the portions of the content that you want to emphasize and let other people read the full content via the links for themselves if they're interested enough. That and it's good ethical academic practice.
Logged


Bluesky
Knight Officer
*

Force Alignment: -1
Posts: 109



« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2013, 01:07:50 AM »

Hi Tanq Grin

I didn't take it as criticism; more as helpful advice Grin

I was trying to make my thoughts clear - I believed at the time it was obvious that it came from somewhere else because of the foreign language. I try to throw up other videos as much as possible to help share the concepts and just thew up the relevant text with the same abandon. I was grateful you picked me up on it actually. It is something I need to improve on in my haste.

I think if you reread what I wrote you will see I thank you more then once. I was just letting everyone know that my heart is in the right place, I screwed up and I will get better at it Grin

I have been getting better at posting and breaking up my research and thoughts and techniques but definitely know I am not perfect. Knowing I was grateful; reread what I said and you will see that I know I need work!!! I make it a point to, as best I can, provide the information so that everyone can get some benefit. The concepts about the center actually was what I was addressing and where I got the concept of Hara in my Ataru; the only thing that disappointed me was that it distracted from the theory.

I thought at the time it clarified the concept leading into my thoughts about Hara Dueling. I don't like just posting links generally because people have to go to another screen and many don't bother, I was actually trying to help Embarrassed

For me it is about sharing all my years as best I can with some people who can use it. All mistakes are my own and I am very sorry. I know I am a bit of a long winded old guy; I hope you enjoyed the theory and spirit with which I am posting.

Kind Regards
Bluesky
Logged

And they live untouched by sorrow in the islands of the blessed along the shore of deep-swirling Ocean, happy heroes for whom the grain-giving earth bears honey-sweet fruit flourishing thrice a year, far from the deathless gods, and Cronos rules over them

— Hesiod,Works and Days (170)

Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
Send this topic | Print
Jump to: