Saber Forum

So I hears that there are a bunch of musicians here on the Saberforum. So if figure that it's time for us force adept Musicians to have a thread where we can just hang out and shoot the bull. Gear, Genres, Instruments, Influences, Goals, Dreams, Jam vids, Favorite songs, Audio samples(hosted elsewhere), what have you, I think we can make this place it.

So, I guess I'll start. I've been a musician for a little over a decade now. Been playing Guitar the longest, 12 years. Then I joined my highschool marching and concert band where I learned how to play thee French Horn, Mellophone, Coronet, Trumpet, Bass Guitar, Piano, Saxophone, Drums, and joined a barbershop Quartet. Since then, I"ve begun trying to get more on the folky side and learned Harmonica and most recently started learning the Banjo.

Musically, I find myslef going for a very mixed style. In one of my bands at school, We are going for a more experimental sound, Writing in mixed and odd meters, and using jazz structures. It's a blast to be able to let out all that the creativity that I want to experiment with. Haha. I Find I need to balance out the amount of effects and techniques I use in that band by having my folk band on the side, keeping it simple and fun. plus, It's fun to be on campus and find all the "bros" who "play" guitar outdoors (for girls only, not for music) by joining them with a banjo then running off while playing Cripple creek when they get mad. haha.

How about you guys? what do you like to play? Favorite Artists? etc? haha

Master Artorius is actually a music teacher, you need to get him in on this.

Feel free to spread the word, my all means. haha. I'll send him a PM to see about joining the Alliance.  :)

I sing! :)

WOOO. what kind of singing? because the voice is one of the most versatile instruments (after all, it's what instruments were trying to mimic since the beginning) Singing can refer to anything. Operatic, rock, hardocre, Gospel, choir, barbershop, crooning...Yodeling? haha

Well, I don't sing professionally, so I don't really do genres, but I was in choir at school.

Nothing wrong with that. I was, too. What are some of your favorite pieces?

I play bass, and guitar; off and on.

Self taught, I can't read music but I love tabs.  ;D

I played trombone in jr high and high school. I'm rusty, but if I put in some time I could get it back.

Ugh, tabs are so much easier. haha. I can sight-read music fairly well, and I hate guitar sheet music. Bass charts too. Lucky for me, I only played Bass in Jazz meaning I could get away with just walking a line in whatever key and it was Okay, because, hey...it's Jazz. haha. 3 years in a Jazz ensemble and I didn't once look at the sheet music I was handed.  :D

I'm a very casual and lazy guy when it comes to music. Or anything for that matter. I have and know enough to play around with 2 Guitars and an Ocarina. The Oc is my fav at present, but I love the guitar for it's versatility and attitude. Simply put, I can't play Deuce Coupe on an Oc. lol Jazz is righteous fun to play, but I love just about anything that strikes me as sounding good. I don't currently have an Amp, and haven't touched the Guitars in ages anyway, but my gear is as follows.

1) An ancient Kay Acoustic, from like the 70s I think. It's my hippie guitar and I love it, but it needs repair. The neck is separating... :'(
2) A Japanese made electric, also from the 70s. Specifically, it's a Teisco No 8 Hollowbody.
3) A 6 hole ceramic Zelda I bought from songbird at anime expo last year. Great instrument, but the range is a little limited I think. I wanna grab a 12 hole eventually.

I prefer sheet music, but at present I can only do tabs on the Oc. :P

Thankfully, it looks like digital amps are getting cheaper and cheaper just to have something to jam on. But I know what you mean about sounding good. My friend always gets mad at me for breaking theory rules, because I don't pay attention to them and I don't know them. But I have an ear and like to play what I like to hear.  :P

I played the piano until middle school. In middle school, the started playing the clarinet and currently play the clarinet for my high school's wind ensumble and marching band.

I mean the best when I say this, but I have only ever liked the sound of the clarinet in Klezmer, Noir-style Jazz, and in a super experimental rock band. Why did you go for Clarinet?  :-X

Indeed, I'm surprised he hasn't posted here yet.  If there's one thing he loves more than Star Wars, it's music.

I'll give him a heads up ;)

This is one of those areas I am lacking in...I played trombone and french horn in school but let it go to pursue sports and martial arts....my daughter caught the bug though, she got to college on a music scholarship before shifting to biology...she sat first chair in all the strings and woodwinds.

I did apprentice with an uncle as a Luthier...this may be where I end up in the next couple years...the blending of the hardwoods is intriguing.

So when you all get ready to make a Star Wars instrument or maybe a Vulcan lute I will be standing by  :D

I don't enjoy studying theory, I don't think anyone does, but I know the basics and can read music well enough to learn the songs properly (for the most part lol) and I enjoy being able to do that. I also enjoy throwing a rule or two out once in awhile and throwing personal flair on a song. This is probably because I watched Back to the Future Part I too many times. That's the same reason I got into guitar. Johnny B. Goode. Still can't play it either! lmao

@Rel, that's awesome.

I have a book of Star Wars music that I need to tear into a bit... perhaps that will help me get my chops back, not to mention that I could serenade the lady with the Princess Leia theme. The trombone is a truly underrated solo instrument, after all...

Manroon, bad news. I love Music Theory. Also, I'll teach you Johnny B. Good.

Jammo, you are a Rusty Trombone player? Don't do a google search . . .

So like has been said I'm actually a music teacher. Primarily a trumpet player I also play guitar, bass, piano, sing and can play any band instrument.

I listen to all forms of music. Not a big fan of country. Opera is ok in small doses. Rap I have to be in the mood for. Everything else is fair game.

Been working on piano music from FF7 Advent Children lately. Completed Aerith's theme. Moving on to the piano version of the boss battle music.

Anybody has any questions let me know. I've got 2 degrees in this stuff. The only things I've been doing longer than music (16 years) is martial arts (20 years) and breathing.

Hmm...Okay, how about this.

What is one of the most beautiful pieces of music you've ever heard?

One for me is Glosoli by Sigur Ros.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz8iEJeh26E#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz8iEJeh26E#ws)

Slow build, MASSIVE climax. What more do you need? lol.

I'm self-taught on guitar, have dabbled with the bass and am always striving to improve my singing.  I've been out of practice for quite a few months now between my senior year being busy and my current job but I'm hoping to pick up the guitar again in college.

Do it man. I stopped playing for about 2 years, then had to self teahc myself EVERYTHING over again. it sucked. so bad. but it seriously helps having other people to play with.

4 years in the Marines... Jammo don't need to search that term.

I play/played the Tenor Saxophone.

Originally wanted to play clarinet, but my dad talked me out of it when I was a kid. Was in the middle school band all three years, joined the middle school's jazz band during my 7th grade (2nd year of middle school). Went to a freshly built high school and joined the band, doing both concert, marching, and jazz for two years. Took a break, then joined back in college for one year of Jazz.

Now in the military and my saxophone is back in my hometown. Haven't touched it in awhile and actually wondering if I'm still able to play. Maybe I'll find out when/if I go home on Leave.

lol Everyone's got something strange I guess. Me? I like to play melody. Yep. I suck at chords and don't mind in the least. Funny thing, I actually have sheet music for Johnny too... I just never could seem to get it down right when I tried to learn it. I definitely welcome the offer to learn it though! I'll have to bust out my hollow body and get some practice in again in preparation I guess. :)

Trumpet? Sweet. My GF is dieing to get back to it herself. She's taking a very long break from it while trying to get over a nasty case of TMJ. Not being able to play is starting to drive the poor girl nuts again... :-\ One of my favorite things is an old CD she made me of her playing a few random geek songs a couple years ago. Star Wars, Zelda, Pirates, and some other stuff. I think my favorite tracks were the Binary Sunset/May the Force Be With You and Davy Jones Locket Theme. They sound really cool on the horn. 8)

@Jammo: Hmm... this may make you the forum Riker now. lol Hey, that reminds me! I also enjoy whistling. I do that alot. It's fun. Drives my friend nuts cause he can't do it. lol How did my mind connect star trek and whistling? Riker and Data first met when Data was trying to whistle Pop Goes the Weasel. We now return you to your regularly scheduled music thread. :)

I mainly play bass(horribly). I also play a little guitar(even more horribly). I like bass better, cause I hate contorting my hand in all those ridiculous shapes to make chords on a guitar. Plus bass sounds a lot cooler, IMO. I should really play my bass more so I can play less horribly, but I haven't been finding the time lately. I haven't touched my guitar in months, except the other day when I had to move it...

I want to learn drums in the worst way, but the people I live with have vetoed me getting a set numerous times.

I mostly like hard rock, metal, and punk, but I have songs and artists from other genres I like too. Except country. That is a scourge upon this earth, and I only listen to it at work cause I'm forced to. Mostly I listen to:

Stone Sour(my ABSOLUTE favorite band, I've been know to hurt people for saying they suck), Three Days Grace, Seether, Disturbed, Avenged Sevenfold, Halestorm, Rise Against, Anti-Flag, Megadeth, Anthrax, Metallica, Slayer, a bunch of classic punk and hardcore bands, Red Hot Chili Peppers. The list goes on, but those are my main ones. Oh, and Led Zeppelin.

I hope to play in a band someday, but I have to find time to get better at playing first....

Country: My grandaddy didn't say hello, he said howdy. I like a little country with my gee-tar. 8) (but only if it's good. Some people... some people just shouldn't have albums... *shakes head in shame*)

I have the right beard and everything, but Dreaming will disown me if I dress up like Riker.

Why? What's wrong with Riker? I mean, aside from all his girl chasing... XD

Dreaming just hates Trek.

For shame. And she seemed so nice too.... oh well, nobody's perfect. You should wear one of those T-Shirts around her that has Spock on it and says Trek Yourself before you Wreck Yourself. lol

Thread derailment: success?

Commence rerailment.

Sheet music VS Tabs. Opinions?

Jammo reads sheet music just fine if its my part, which is weird for a trombone player...

I've been playing guitar for about 5 years now. Not very good though since I'm just a self-taught broke guy with no cash to spend on lessons. I'm also planning on taking up bass, which is the only instrument I love as much as the guitar. I just signed up for college classes, and classical guitar / theory is one of the classes I'll be taking. I used to take classical guitar lessons in High School, but the program lost all funding, so I was on my own. I was also in a rock-n-roll orchestra that combined classical pieces with classic rock hits.

Anyway, my dad wants me to get a degree in computer engineering. I want to get a degree in music. What should I do? Computer engineering would land me an awesome, well-paying job, but music is my life. I live and breathe it. Than again a degree in music would do nothing for me. I'm a metal head wanting to start a metal band and make it big. A degree in music theory or anything like that would do nothing for me. It sucks :(

Oh, and as for the sheet music vs. tablature question, there is NOTHING wrong with learning by tab. If you learn by tab, don't follow the tab note-for-note, try and play it the way you think sounds the best, or that you think offers the most accessibility. Learning songs is what keeps you interested in playing. Eventually your ear will have absorbed so much music, that you can begin to figure out riffs and licks by ear, as opposed to strictly using tab. That is my two cents.

Oh, and "this one time at band camp" actually happens. We had a guy that liked to run around in tighty whities at night. He was darker in skin tone and blended in to the forest well, leaving the illusion that a pair of underwear was taking a midnight run by itself. We also threw a large stuffed animal out of a 12th story window at a competition in Vegas one time.

I put really big graffiti in our guitar closet at Troy!

but the teacher let me... so it's not as cool... lol

I was a teen camp councilor at a riverside camp I was working at for a summer...an entire High School marching band showed up for a 3 day weekend break to their band camp...and it was not my High School...there were many shenanigans...ah yes the clarinet twins...the river...good times good times.

I must admit I considered going back to band after that, but the lure of karate, judo, and soccer were to much for me lol.

My senior Class Band prank was that we took all the chairs and stands out of our band room and set them up along with the directors podium around a tree outside the building. Then barricaded the bandroom door so noone could get in to it. The underclassmen hated us the next few days...haha.

I just had an Idea. Does anyone have the star wars sheet music, for the main theme? If so, find a way to get us a PDF. and then Let's all Record parts that fit it on our various instruments. Sort of like Eric Whitacre's Virtual choir. But with us. I'd be willing to edit it together. But if we all use the same key, and Have some fun with it, I think we can make this work. And it'd just be a cool project. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. As a Musician, record your individual part at the correct tempo using a metronome (online or real life) or We can have someone do a conducting video so we are all on tempo. be it choir, or trumpet, or bass. and for some of the sections maybe take some artistic flair. like, I intend to do a banjo line somewhere in it. if it fails, it fails, but i think it would be a neat project.

So. Who would be up for something like this?

Also, here's the Virtual choir video. Ignore the video, but the concept is kinda what I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7o7BrlbaDs#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7o7BrlbaDs#ws)

If I can scrounge up a copy of the music and shake the rust off my guitar fingers I wouldn't mind trying this, but I dunno if I'll get it done very fast if I try it. lol

If you can do that, I can take bits of what everyone has posted so far regarding instruments and make a new arrangement of it. which will take some time, so You'll have plenty to refresh yourself. haha.

I have some of the music, OT only though. No Duel of the Fates... *sigh* :(

Great idea, sounds interesting to be sure. I would have to get to my saxophone back in California, but I'd be willing to participate in that.

I know part of the main theme on guitar. However I only have the built-in microphone and webcam on my laptop to record with, so the audio quality would be extremely horrid. Trust me, I've uploaded videos to Youtube before and they all came out bad. Otherwise I'd love to try this. Sounds very fun!

OT rules. Though I DO like Across the Stars and the music from the two end duels of Ep III. The rest was good too, of course, but overall the OT music sticks to me more accept for the above mentioned, which hold equal to the OT score in my eyes.

Bury Anything in enough reverb and it sounds pretty. XD but we can totally work with it. obviously, the better then interface, the better the quality, but that's not really what this is about.

Also, I'm thinking like...The Main Title Theme of Star Wars. Classic, recognizable, and if our multi-instrumentalists out there do more than one instrument, it will sound fuller. Although, Duel of the Fates would be very helpful to get our vocalists involved here as well. Just a thought. We'd need like...75 minimum of them for it to sound good though. haha. 

That is a very good point lol. I know Threadjack can play the bass lines. If he wants to of course. I'll try recording again. I've been messing with the reverb and other EQ settings to get it through my mic as best as possible. I run things through audacity which also has EQ settings.

Well let's see about figuring out interest/instrumentation first. Then I will arrange it for the parts we have and we can go from there.  :)

Sounds good to me :)

Oh... And I know this sounds super lame and nooby, but since I'm completely self-taught, I don't know how to: 1. read music. 2. how to properly play to a metronome. I've been playing for 5 years though and I do know how to play well... just not in the traditional sense. If anyone could help me with that, it would be most appreciated.

Well I mentioned earlier that I'm interested in grabbing a nice acoustic for college.  has anyone heard good things about Dean's acoustics?  I know they're mostly known for electrics thanks to Dimebag Darrel, but I tried out this Dean acoustic made from an exotic wood named Paduck that I loved the tone of.

Don't sweat it. I'd be willing to help, in any of several ways, either by mapping out the fretboard and staff to show you the notes, or giving the notes. I'm sure someone here can arrange a tab as well. and if all else fails, well...hey, a free theory lesson may be in your future.  ;D We shall see once we have music!


If you like the sound, who cares what other people think. lol. Music is such a subjective thing. As Far as build quality, I know that they do good work on electrics (i have one), but i'd check out harmony central for some reviews on acoustic build quality. I, myself, LOVE the sound I get out of my Takamine Acoustic-Electric. Buhhuhuhuh, is that a pretty sounding thing. haha. Mind if I ask what your budget is for an acoustic?

That would be awesome :) Thanks. I'm going to be taking a classical guitar course in college soon. I'll need to buy a classical guitar of course, but I have one picked out. I just don't know if they'll expect me to actually know the basics before I take lessons. That is what makes me nervous.

I call solo on the throne room!

Can't tell if talking about the song, or just really wants to record in the bathroom...

I feel like finding a beginner theory course for free online would be pretty easy. it isn't too complicated. Okay, it's a little complicated. But drilling at it for a little bit helps.

Ideally it'd be a trade with a local music store.  A used Peavey Predator Plus (Yeah I know it's not a great guitar, I was young and foolish and did NO research) and a slightly dinged up B.C. Rich Mockingbird that's atleast a decade old.  Say what you will but I was pretty impressed with how this one sounds.  It probably is from way back when they used decent pick ups and not the sithy stock pickups you find on their current models.  All in all the acoustic I want is sitting around $300 retail and ideally Id want $275 for the 2 guitars, the gig bag that I have for the Peavey and if push comes to shove I can part with my distortion pedal.

I dunno, I tried taking that approach, but I learn better with hands-on learning rather than reading up on something and trying to learn from there.


B.C. Rich makes amazing guitars. The only reason why they get such a bad rep is because of their lower-end models and because of their "outrageous shapes". Oh, and distortion pedals aren't really necessary. Just use the distortion on your amp, unless of course your amp was designed for total clean playing. I'd just use an overdrive pedal for leads and stuff if I were you, and to boost the EQ for your setup.

Yeah I agree with you there, I use an Ibanez Toneblaster 100 (Yeah I know...a Peavey guitar an Ibanez amp boy did I do that one backwards  :D ) But I like it a lot.  I use a Tube Screamer pedal and the cleans are to die for.  With the overdrive channel on the amp I can get about Megadeth levels of distortion which is just about where I like it.  I picked up the pedal because, much tomy distatste, the only active bands in my area are screamo metal and only wanted heavy distortion   :-[

depending on our instrumentation for this particular project, I might advise against distortion simply because it cuts too much and would stand out against other instruments.

 As for amp dist. vs. pedal dist, I'm a pedal Guy. Ultumately it depends on the amp, because a nice tube amp will give you a heck of a lot of drive that is better than many pedals. Then again, i just like the pedals I use for giving some edge but with more control... as well as total chaos. My Zvex Fuzz Factory is such a crazy piece of gear. I actually put velcro on my guitar and it so i had easy access to its controls. mainly "Stability". turn that down and good lord, look out, it oscillates like a banshee. which is great  ;D

Also, A tube screamer is a beautiful beautiful thing. So versatile.

LOL. Yeah you did get that backwards :P But oh well. As long as you have a guitar and an amp, you are set. I think too many people get caught up on gear. It's like what Billy Sheehan once said, "Players always place the blame on their equipment. Oh I suck so maybe I need a new amp, or a new bass, or a new guitar, etc. No. Just stop thinking and practice." Or something along those lines.

Oh, and I love the tube screamer! And yeah... that sucks :( I'm one of those guys that really tries to defend harsh vocals as an artform. Thing is that I never understood how people can label a genre purely by whether or not it contains harsh vocals. It's like guitar with distortion, only for the voice. Metal isn't metal simply because of distortion.

But yeah, I do think some modern metal bands do make their music rather dis-tastefully...

I don't mind heavy distortion and harsh vocals if used right.  I think S.O.A.D. has a great mesh of clean and harsh both for the vocals and guitar.  But pure screamo just isn't for me.  But in your opinion how much can you see a shop owner offering for a Predator in almost perfect condition (it only needs to be restrung but it IS a Floyd Rose setup...terrible choice in hindsight) with a gig bag, a B.C. Rich Mockingbird that has a pretty scratched up finish and a Boss Metalcore Distortion Pedal?

I really wouldn't know the answer for that, to be honest. I'm not a total gear expert, I just know what sounds good and what sounds like trash lol. Maybe you should just look up the original prices and make your best guess? Or just ask the store owner.

True enough.  I guess a little part of me is just disappointed to see the guitar and gear go but it's for the best.

True :( I'll never sell my Squier Stratocaster. It is my first guitar and my only guitar, and I love it to bits. I'm going to have to buy a classical guitar later on for my college classes. It'll be great :) I also want to eventually save up for an electric bass, as well as an amp, of course. Bass has always been my all-time favorite instrument, along side guitar.

Seriously guys...Banjo. Where it's at. lol.

To quote Chester Mcbadbat from Fairly-Odd Parents: "I HATE THE BANJO!!!"

But seriously, it never interested me lol. Back when I was in performing in an orchestra, I fell in love with all of the instruments in the strings family. My time in the orchestra has really matured and sharpened my musical tastes and outlook.

To be honest, before this year, I wasn't really a big fan, either. But I started to get more into folk music and digging deeper into it, and it's just a super fun instrument to play. It can still be sad, and mysterious, but it can be so energetic as well. And i'm not big into metal and hardcore stuff anymore, so i found that good folk has a crap ton of energy to it. Mostly becasue of the banjo. Plus, nothing beats sitting on a back porch with my pipe strumming out a tune. its so relaxing and fun. it's a totally new timbre to play with as well. A SNARE DRUM YOU CAN STRUM?! haha. I don't know. I'm a musician, I like to expand my borders. Challenge myself. like, my brain thinks "I bet you won't learn the banjo". and I go: OH YEAH BRAIN? WATCH ME. haha. It's weird. On one end, I'm learning banjo and folk music, on the other, i'm learning EDM and Digital Music Production. It's a blast. haha. Although, my next instrument purchase will be a telecaster of some sort. but that's not for a long while. need to build up more money.  :-[ haha.

Yeah, I just like to choose an instrument and try and get as good as I possibly can on it. I don't want to sit there and learn the basics for a bunch of different instruments, even if I do love them to death.

I follow the "jack of all trades, master of none" approach. haha.

I'd  be willing to learn the bass lines for it, but keep in mind I'll be playing it on an Ibanez Accoustic-Electric bass, so try to be light on the distortion, or I'll get drowned out completely....

Yep...

I've never watched anything associated with Trek either....I'd be so lost..


Oh the music note, I can sing!  Was the star soloist in my high school choir and even had a scholarship to ASU for their music program. 

We can get my oldest daughter in the act, she's an extremely talented trumpet player.  Darth Small is still discovering her musical talents....

B-But... Aw, fine >:( lol. I'm kidding :P

So just curious guys what bands or solo artists do you draw a lot of inspiration from when playing or writing?

hmm... Minus the Bear, Circa Survive, Sigur Ros, mewithoutYou, Radiohead, The Dear Hunter, and Clouds Make Sounds. at least that's what I hear influence from, anyway.

Too many to list lol. When practicing, I'm pretty much always learning songs that use a lot of the techniques I'm trying to get better at. For me, I'm a metal head, and Metallica, plus Megadeth, are my main draws. I'm currently learning Master of Puppets. I was originally working on Symphony of Destruction by Megadeth but I couldn't figure out the 4th measure of Marty Friedman's solo for the life of me, so I took a break. Now I'm trying to get my down-picking up to par. Yeah, I'm gonna do it like James Hetfield and play all of MoP using only downstrokes ;D

My other all time favorite bands/artists that I also draw inspiration from would have to be: Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Scorpions, Racer X, Dream Theater, Slayer, Periphery, Meshuggah, Opeth, Slipknot, Stone Sour, All That Remains, Killswitch Engage, As I Lay Dying, Vivaldi, Bach, Beethoven, Jimi Hendrix, Paul Gilbert, etc, etc. Basically the whole nine yards.

I played saxophone back in 19... something or other... Been meaning to take it back up.

Are you my long lost twin?  James Hetfield is one of my personal idols both as a musician and as a person.

Anyhow onto the inspiration.  I love music in all it's forms but if I could only pick a single genre for what inspires me the most probably metal.  But here's a list of bands and artists that really have ab ig influence on waht I try and sound like.

Voltaire
Iron Maiden -especially Adrian Smith's work-
Metallica
Megadeth
Two Steps From Hell
Audiomachine
Flogging Molly
Meatloaf
Black Sabbath
Dio
S.O.A.D.
Stefan Elmgren -former guitarist in a band called Hammerfall-
Joe Satriani
Ted Nugent -as a guitarist not as a song writer or the band though I do love Fred bear-
Tartanic
John Williams
Nightwish
European Folk Music, especially Celtic

I might as well be your long lost twin :) James Hetfield is an amazing rhythm guitarist. His down-picking, timing, and creativity are second to none IMO. Metallica is also my #1 favorite band. I dunno how to describe it, but I just relate to them so much, and despite all the big egos and the big fights, they always manage to come out on top. Those guys are really funny and down-to-earth now. I love all of them as musicians, past-and-present. Plus their songs  have always been out of this world.

Oh yeah, and you like Nightwish? Definitely long lost twins now!

Listening to the Imaginaereum CD as we speak :)  In all honesty I can stand the whole Anette vs Tarja debates.  Tarja's been gone for 6 years now and her solo work is very good.  There's are some songs that Tarja did that I know Annette will never do Justice (I would've loved to hear THE SIREN live back when Tarja was with them) but I also like what Annette brought to the band and Tarja's voice, while beautiful and a diamond among lesser gems, didn't suit rockier songs to well.

So to make a long story short I like both singers and wish for the day when both can be in the band.

I totally agree. I hate it. People just can't seem to get over it though. I think they are both amazing to be honest. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. I highly doubt they can be both in the band though. Did you know the song "Bye, bye beautiful" was actually about Tarja?

Oh I noticed that the second I got to Track 2 of Dark Passion Play  :D (I'm weird and old fashioned, I prefer CD's to digital).

I couldn't help but smile since I knew the band was giving her a lyrical middle finger.  They definitely didn't part on good terms and with the hundred some theories about why Tarja left or was kicked out didn't help.

Sorry, was watching a movie with my dad lol. Also, don't worry, I do too, which is weird considering how I'm still only 17. Oh well.